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#1 grobiefan53

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Posted 03 February 2011 - 11:40 AM

I came across this website, http://vocalwisdom.c...80/josh-groban. I think they went from being critical to cruel. I say let them walk a mile in Josh's shoes, sell over 24 million albums, then let someone critique them! Okay, so he hits a few flats or sharps in his singing from time to time. The fact that he is such a beautiful person, and has his human flaws like everyone else, just endears him to his loyal fans. I don't see how they can say he has poor vocal control or breathing control. Of course, I'm not a professional singer, but I do sing. Believe me, Josh HAS breathing control! It concerned me when they talked about Josh straining his voice to the point that he might just lose his voice one day. I think that's a decision only Josh can make, and he takes such good care of his voice. I don't know. It just upset me to read their "opinions." Of course, not everyone is going to like his music or his style. I would appreciate your thoughts.

#2 raspberry

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Posted 03 February 2011 - 12:34 PM

are these guys serious?

looks like they are... :mellow:

I haven't replied because I see no point.
I will let them have their highbrow technical discussion, and I hope they will one day realise that Josh is so much more than just a 'technically perfect' voice.
I for one am happy with imperfections - shows he's human :)
and I'm sure Josh is far too smart to ruin his voice!

I hope you don't mind, I have posted the article on FOJG (Friends of Josh Groban, the message board for paying members) to see how people feel about it there.

If there are interesting responses, I will let you know. Welcome, by the way! :D
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#3 grobiefan53

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Posted 03 February 2011 - 12:45 PM

Thanks for your comments, Raspberry! I don't mind your sharing the article at all. FYI, I am a paying member. When I type FOJG, it sends me back to JoshGroban.com. What board were you referring to? thanks and regards. :D

#4 Jewels

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Posted 03 February 2011 - 12:48 PM

I hope you don't mind, I have posted the article on FOJG (Friends of Josh Groban, the message board for paying members) to see how people feel about it there.

If there are interesting responses, I will let you know. Welcome, by the way! :D


Thanks. That would be nice along with what others on this board would have to say also.

#5 Raylie

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Posted 03 February 2011 - 12:59 PM

This surprised me in particular:

His singing seems to have gotten worse over time.


:blink:

...

HUH? :huh:

Lol, they're not making any sense. Josh is only human, and that's just the way we like him!

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#6 Grannybird

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Posted 03 February 2011 - 01:20 PM

Here we go again!!

#7 Gabby89

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Posted 03 February 2011 - 02:00 PM

Okay, I don't know anything about the technical side of singing but I have ears and don't understand how anyone in their right mind could ever describe Josh's voice as "thin" or say that he's getting worse over time. What?? That man's voice has never sounded better. I don't know what qualifications these people have for judging singing but I would pay to hear them try to tackle any of his songs.
They wish he would ruin his voice.
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#8 Paulianne

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Posted 03 February 2011 - 05:14 PM

I stopped reading the article as soon as I spotted the word "popera." I think it's an awful expression to use. It's either "opera" or "pop."

#9 eblovesjosh

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Posted 03 February 2011 - 10:36 PM

Popera is not a bad word - it means guys who sing both pop and opera. Josh does not, but Domingo, Pavarotti and Bocelli and many others do.

Having said that - that article was a laugh and a half. What a bunch of pompous asses!! Don't you just LOVE people like that who actually believe that they know what they are talking about??

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#10 raspberry

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Posted 04 February 2011 - 01:32 AM

there are some interesting responses on the other board (fojgboard.joshgroban.com)
I will post them if I have permission from the people who posted them there - everyone is in agreement with the opinions that have been voiced here :)
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#11 February Nocturne

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Posted 04 February 2011 - 09:37 AM

Honestly, this is a fascinating article. Thank you, grobiefan53 for posting it! It's interesting for me to read since I'm one of these philistines who has no clue about vocal technique. I agree with the OP that the author went from objectively critical to just plain cruel, especially in his last comment about Josh's "pretending to be classically trained." Ouch! And he's completely wrong about that: we've seen numerous interviews where Josh defines his music as pop, not classical...and in fact bows down to the operatic greats, hoping "someday" to be able to tackle their repertoire. And, to me, it's laughable that the author tries to judge Josh's vocal technique based on his beloved "Swedish/Italian school," which has no bearing on Josh.

But at the same time, Josh's voice has changed noticeably over the years. I can't speak technically about it, but it seems like Josh is pushing towards a higher range and outright falsetto more and more. But this seems like a stylistic decision on Josh's part, though I have no idea whether or not he's doing it "correctly", so that he doesn't hurt his voice. Incidentally, I thought this might've been one reason he chose to include "They won't go when I go" as a bonus track, since it features his deeper, more baritoney range in a nice contrast to his higher tracks. Secondly, in the gap since Awake, Josh's voice seems to have matured and deepened quite noticeably. Personally, I'm enjoying the change because it gives a new level of depth to his songs that wasn't there before. I'm thinking specifically of his early and later performances of "Mi Morena". If you listen to his live performance (sessions at AOL 2004 vs. his 2007 recording at Rose Hall, you can immediately hear the difference in vocal quality. To my biased ears, the second one sounds better, but I guess the only thing you could say objectively is that it's deeper.

On a completely different note, does anyone know what this "speech level singing" is? Apparently, both Josh's vocal coaches, Seth Riggs and David Romano, practice and teach it. The short summary of the SLS method I found on the official website was not very helpful, since it does little more than describe what happens in one's throat when one sings; perhaps they don't want to reveal their technique for people who aren't willing to pay up?

I was interested in these particular remarks left by Joseph, a supposed grobanite:

- Closer (2003): this is after the switch to a “classical” training. Groban sings with a more “speech level” tone quality – that is, his singing sounds like an extension of his speaking voice, albeit with vibrato and with a bit more intensity. No more does he use the artificial-sounding effect in his voice from the first album. Also, he seems to have a rather easy high range, hitting tenor B-flag in full voice occasionally. Hardly any falsetto is involved. However, his voice is still rather small due to being rather young.
- Awake (2006): here, Groban sings with more of the “speech level” effect in his voice, although his voice sounds slightly more mature. His vocal production is slightly airy at times, but still maintains a rather pleasant quality. However, a lot of separated head voice is used on notes that were once easy for him. Whether this is for stylistic purposes or because it was easier for him, I don’t know.


Is Joseph implying that hitting high notes in "full voice" takes more skill or is somehow preferable to hitting them in head voice? Does head voice involve a lessening of vibration or something? And what does he mean by "separated" head voice? And what do all those bloggers mean about a "balanced" voice? That seems to be the keyword. Anyone?
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#12 raspberry

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Posted 04 February 2011 - 10:13 AM

I have no idea about the technical side, and frankly don't care much :)
Josh's voice speaks to my heart and apart from developing his voice or technique over the years, I mostly admire the man he has become and is still growing into - someone who keeps learning about every aspect of his craft (the pianoplaying, the drums, the production process, the songwriting, even the photoshoots), who is not afraid to learn from anyone he works with, who has the respect of his peers in the industry, who does not take himself seriously, who takes a genuine interest in his fans and who gives back to the community through his foundation ... and believe me, the foundation does a lot more than we get to hear about ;)

I will take the complete picture of Josh any day over a 'technically perfect or balanced voice', whatever that means :D

I'm not going to post a comment on the so-called Wisdom website, because I don't see the point of the discussion with people who feel the need to dissect music instead of letting it feed their soul.
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#13 Tatiane

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Posted 04 February 2011 - 01:37 PM

Honestly, this is a fascinating article. Thank you, grobiefan53 for posting it! It's interesting for me to read since I'm one of these philistines who has no clue about vocal technique. I agree with the OP that the author went from objectively critical to just plain cruel, especially in his last comment about Josh's "pretending to be classically trained." Ouch! And he's completely wrong about that: we've seen numerous interviews where Josh defines his music as pop, not classical...and in fact bows down to the operatic greats, hoping "someday" to be able to tackle their repertoire. And, to me, it's laughable that the author tries to judge Josh's vocal technique based on his beloved "Swedish/Italian school," which has no bearing on Josh.

But at the same time, Josh's voice has changed noticeably over the years. I can't speak technically about it, but it seems like Josh is pushing towards a higher range and outright falsetto more and more. But this seems like a stylistic decision on Josh's part, though I have no idea whether or not he's doing it "correctly", so that he doesn't hurt his voice. Incidentally, I thought this might've been one reason he chose to include "They won't go when I go" as a bonus track, since it features his deeper, more baritoney range in a nice contrast to his higher tracks. Secondly, in the gap since Awake, Josh's voice seems to have matured and deepened quite noticeably. Personally, I'm enjoying the change because it gives a new level of depth to his songs that wasn't there before. I'm thinking specifically of his early and later performances of "Mi Morena". If you listen to his live performance (sessions at AOL 2004 vs. his 2007 recording at Rose Hall, you can immediately hear the difference in vocal quality. To my biased ears, the second one sounds better, but I guess the only thing you could say objectively is that it's deeper.

On a completely different note, does anyone know what this "speech level singing" is? Apparently, both Josh's vocal coaches, Seth Riggs and David Romano, practice and teach it. The short summary of the SLS method I found on the official website was not very helpful, since it does little more than describe what happens in one's throat when one sings; perhaps they don't want to reveal their technique for people who aren't willing to pay up?

I was interested in these particular remarks left by Joseph, a supposed grobanite:



Is Joseph implying that hitting high notes in "full voice" takes more skill or is somehow preferable to hitting them in head voice? Does head voice involve a lessening of vibration or something? And what does he mean by "separated" head voice? And what do all those bloggers mean about a "balanced" voice? That seems to be the keyword. Anyone?





Very interesting your comment.
Actually, enlightening and knowledgeable. I am a new Grobie, just two years ... but also noticed changes in the voice of Josh ... but instead I think it's better, he's more mature and deeper, I think (I heard simple) that is less nasal. I had noticed this and talked. And really, I like more pop and less of "barite" Josh is more of a genre.
I think that Illuminations is the culmination of the work of Josh, both in music and lyrics as well as interpretation him.
And really, what matters the technique "classic"?
Just hope he's taking care of the voice so he does not miss later when older.
But I think he is getting better ...
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#14 eblovesjosh

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Posted 04 February 2011 - 10:31 PM

Josh IS classically trained and always has been. He gets the same training that opera singers do. I may be wrong, but I think David R has also trained opera singers. If Josh ever chooses to sing that style in the future, he will be able to do it.

Josh just gets better and better with each new album.

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#15 DallasGrobie

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Posted 04 February 2011 - 11:39 PM

I have no idea about the technical side, and frankly don't care much
Josh's voice speaks to my heart and apart from developing his voice or technique over the years, I mostly admire the man he has become and is still growing into - someone who keeps learning about every aspect of his craft (the pianoplaying, the drums, the production process, the songwriting, even the photoshoots), who is not afraid to learn from anyone he works with, who has the respect of his peers in the industry, who does not take himself seriously, who takes a genuine interest in his fans and who gives back to the community through his foundation ... and believe me, the foundation does a lot more than we get to hear about

I will take the complete picture of Josh any day over a 'technically perfect or balanced voice', whatever that means

I'm not going to post a comment on the so-called Wisdom website, because I don't see the point of the discussion with people who feel the need to dissect music instead of letting it feed their soul.



Spot on, Miranda. Holla!! B)
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#16 ISY

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Posted 05 February 2011 - 06:01 AM

Interesting subject.Josh ,in my opinion,is not or has never claimed to be an opera singer.He is classically trained and why not? it just shows he wants to do the best he can for his voice.To me he is a popular singer with a beautiful,unique voice.If he chose to sing opera I am sure he could up his training and become one.,but I don,t think this is the road he wants to go.I don,t mind what he sings,I love all his music and will continue to do so.But we all know with Josh it is NOT just about the voice there is also a lovely person there to love and admire.....Irene.... :)

#17 grobiefan53

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Posted 05 February 2011 - 06:21 AM

I have had musical/voice training. We were taught that if a note gets too high, rather than sing full voice from the diaphram, go to a head voice. The sound will be more pleasing to the listener, less strained, and more controlled. Josh does that brilliantly, flawlessly, i.e. in Love Only Knows "I've tried to hold (head voice....)....back so long (natural tessetura (comfortable range). He does not switch to the head voice for the chorus (Love only knows, if we'll give into fear and chose life undercover....)If he had used his head voice, the sound, again, would have been soft and pleasant sounding, But he wanted to stress to the listener by the tone of his voice, the urgency or importance of what he was singing, and you can just "feel" the emotion he is trying to convey. My favorite part in this song is the raw voice emotion he exudes when he sings the line, "Love only knows.....HOW your arms pull me in like the waves pull me under." Listen to how he sings "HOW" His voice breaks with strained, emotional urgency. It's a little high in his range, and it's a forced sound, but wow, what emotion. I'll take emotion over technique anyday. But he does both brilliantly!!! :rolleyes:

#18 VACarol

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Posted 05 February 2011 - 11:45 AM

Thanks for that insight, GrobieFan. I enjoyed reading what you had to say.

I read that article before someone posted it on the message boards and just laughed. I believe the writers of the article were sincere, just so committed to their way of thinking about technique they can't get past it. Happens in other professions as well.

#19 Gabby89

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Posted 05 February 2011 - 04:28 PM

Lovely post GrobieFan!
I think that Michael and his little band of "experts" were surprised by the amount of feedback that they received from Josh fans :P
I left a reply about what I thought of his alleged vocal deterioration. Whether they agree or not is their problem.
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#20 Musiclover2/Lauren

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Posted 05 February 2011 - 06:53 PM

I wish I still had a post that Jon Christos, a world renoun tennor posted, in regard to a troll on the old boards. Jon is a huge Josh fan and said so what if Josh's technique isn't perfect. It's not a perfect technique for everyone, but it works for Josh. Josh is able to get the emotions into the song that are missing when most singers perform.

Elaine, do you remember the post?

Anyway, the last part in this is for them. A woman said that the Chorus was the throat of the CSO and how if a string is broken on an instrument in the CSO or a reed is broken it can be replaced. It ended with something that reminded me sooo much of Josh. "Imagine trying to purchase a Steinway or Stradivarius set of vocal chords." ....http://www.chicagotribune.com/entertainmen...,0,482059.story